Gases Sensors

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JademicIT
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Gases Sensors

#1 Post by JademicIT » 15 Apr 2020, 00:48

Hello everyone, as you know, in this period we speak almost exclusively of COVID-19.
Unfortunately there are very serious consequences and many people are suffering and others will.
I had the "brilliant" idea of ​​taking an Ozone generator to disinfect the environment in which I live, but I didn't do some math, how much this can harm health and then I thought I could measure the amount of Ozone in the rooms, but I wanted to do it with a NodeMCU and ESPMEGA, but I am not able to integrate the MQ131 sensor that I purchased and I wanted to ask if it was possible to insert it in the project.

I thank you if you want to help me.

Jad

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Re: Gases Sensors

#2 Post by TD-er » 15 Apr 2020, 01:13

You may also want to have a look at the research Prusa did, or at least published, regarding the effectiveness of cleaning the 3D printed masks using various disinfection methods.
https://help.prusa3d.com/en/article/pru ... 1566845231

Currently the research on disinfecting those 3D printed masks using ozone is still in progress.

First let me make sure you get the idea of why it is a well known disinfection gas.
That's because it is quite hazardous to living organisms.
For example it is used on ships to disinfect ballast water, so they are allowed to dump it on the "other side of the world" when they have loaded new freight to go to the next harbor.
Otherwise you may transport organisms to another environment where they may not have any natural enemy.

That being said, I would advise against running high concentrations of ozone in your own house.
The presence of a laser printer in a less than optimal ventilated room is enough to give some serious headache.
And those ozone concentrations generated by the high voltage of the laser printer are not going to kill the covid-19 virus.

Not that I am against finding a good home made tool for fighting this virus and even using ESPEasy for it would be great of course.
But on the other hand, I do like to keep the active users alive and not die trying to use ESPEasy to help to protect the world against this virus.

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Re: Gases Sensors

#3 Post by JademicIT » 15 Apr 2020, 22:40

I agree with you that ozone, in high concentrations, can be harmful to health, it can become deadly, there is no doubt.
There is also no doubt that, in this period, many are probably abusing it and it is precisely here that I wanted to stop and ask you for help.
By now we are "infested" with non-professional ozone generators, and UV-C lamp, I have seen the prices of these products on the net grow disproportionately and run out of stocks quickly and I asked myself, but why not something that can control or at least measure the quantity of Ozone present in a room or in the environment?
I think of those who have not stopped as I did and simply turned on these Ozone generators completely unaware, unaware of what they risk or at least unaware of the amount of Ozone present in their homes.
Here, if with ESPEasy we could give an instrument that can measure ozone, then we can actually be more confident of what we are doing.
Having said that, ozone is harmful just because of large concentrations and if used improperly, on the other hand there is the positive side of the medal, in water for example it vanishes in 20 minutes and if used correctly it can heal, it is already used precisely for disinfection in healthcare environments, injected under the skin it cures other forms of diseases, if you do a thorough research you will see that Ozone can be used to treat many diseases, in autohemotransfusion it is a powerful antiviral doping. Of course I don't say this because I want to go that far, I just need to be able to safely use the generator to disinfect the environment and I think it can become useful to many, because I repeat, I have seen many people buy these generators, but how many will use it correctly ?

My personal opinion is this:
Ozone is a natural solution at very low cost, pharmaceutical companies and those of traditional disinfectant products fight against the spread of Ozone because this would lead to significant disadvantages for their income.
Today I called a professional company to disinfect my company, well, the solution they propose is to use an oxidizing liquid ... Ozone is absolutely oxidizing and in fact many companies on the internet are now equipping themselves with professional machinery to sanitize environments with ozone.

With UV-C waves at 275-280 nm Ozone is created and this in your Prusa link has been verified to be effective against viruses and bacteria.

I apologize for my translation, I know that I have probably made many mistakes.

Thanks for reading and if you want to help me I'll be grateful.

Jad

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Re: Gases Sensors

#4 Post by TD-er » 15 Apr 2020, 23:44

I do agree with you that it is for sure a potential disinfectant with low costs.

But here comes in my inexperience with it.
I know it is dangerous when used in a not well ventilated room, but I don't know at what concentrations.
Also I don't know if it has the same weight as normal air, or heavier, or maybe moves to the ceiling.
This is quite important as it determines where you should place the sensor.

Another thing I am not sure about is the aging effects and the need for (re)calibration of the sensors that can detect ozone.
Quite often these sensors do react to a lot of gasses and then you may need a separate sensor with a different response curve to determine whether it was mainly Ozone, or some other gas that triggered the response.
This means it is unknown what actual gas concentration did trigger the rise or fall in the sensor output if you simply use only 1 sensor.
So it is very likely you will see a false positive, or maybe worse a false negative, when trying to measure the concentration of a specific gas.

If you only increase a single gas concentration, then it is very likely you see mostly the response of the gas concentration you increase.
But how to interpret it....
I think at best, you can trigger a warning to signal the increase of concentration of probably that gas.
But when is it dangerous? I don't know.
Is X ppm for 10 minutes dangerous? Or is 2X ppm for 5 minutes more dangerous? I don't know.
Is X ppm for 10 minutes more dangerous to a child or to a grown up? I have no idea.

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Re: Gases Sensors

#5 Post by JademicIT » 16 Apr 2020, 00:50

Your doubts are pertinent.

The sensor I indicated MQ131 is not new in the arduino world, here are some libraries:
https://github.com/ostaquet/Arduino-MQ131-driver

I own this model:
https://www.banggood.com/it/CJMCU-131-M ... tm_source= googleshopping & utm_medium = cpc_union & utm_content = & utm_campaign = Xibei Xibei-ssc-it-all-0508 & ad_id = 347 257 067 887 & gclid = EAIaIQobChMI-PKqwL3r6AIV2ON3Ch1RLAGGEAYYASABEgI1XPD_BwE & cur_warehouse = CN

Here is a PDF on the MQ131 sensor:
https://www.sensorsportal.com/DOWNLOADS/MQ131.pdf

Ozone is definitely a heavy O3 gas therefore three oxygen atoms for a single Ozone molecule, therefore it tends to settle on the ground oxygen is O2.
I know a person who uses ozone in both the medical and health fields, maybe he has some tools to measure it, I should ask.

My generator is made of two distinct crowns (plates) so we can also make tests by turning on one at a time for set times and checking various detections.
I know that each plate generates 10g / h of ozone, therefore in a closed environment and turning on for a set time, we should be able to calculate what the sensor should indicate and thus also be able to calibrate it.

There is a lot of information about ozone now.
However, I am available to do tests, I have free and unused environments, I have the ozone generator made with crown plates, I can feed it through a sonoff at the moment, therefore at a safe distance, I have NODEMCU V2 modules available and the sensor, I have relay to be able to connect to the NODEMCU, I delight enough in electrical and electronic circuits.

If you like we can try.
What do you think about it?

Jad

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Re: Gases Sensors

#6 Post by HomeJCL » 16 Apr 2020, 07:40

For my other hobby, have customers where there is an ozonification.

That is a Fort Knox style building, you don’t go in there and don’t leave anything in it that you don’t need to leave behind.

Frankly what is to dislike soap and water as being very effective

As TD-er mentioned just a laser printer can be troublesome to the majority, why do you think in offices all the printers are now housed in a “printer room” with dedicated ventilation/extraction.

Succès in your endeavour

PS a lot of materials don’t like exposure to UV and ozone, human being one.
Belgium and land of ESP ... counting :D

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Re: Gases Sensors

#7 Post by TD-er » 16 Apr 2020, 09:40

There is a link posted in that Prusa thread about disinfecting with Ozone: http://www.genlantis.com/ozilla-lab-sterilizer.html
I'm not an expert on this area, so I may appear a bit too cautious here.
Apart from the possible direct dangers which have been mentioned enough I think, there is another hidden danger.
The "hidden danger" is that you try to disinfect for a reason.
The reason is to make sure it can be used again without (or at least reducing) the risk of getting infected.
But how do you measure when the ozone exposure is enough?

Without knowing the effectiveness, it is maybe even more dangerous than considering something to be contaminated and act on it.

Don't get me wrong, it is great to take a look at the scientific approach to make things more safe to use.
But please be aware of the risks and as always, this Dutch saying applies:
Meten is weten, als je weet wat je meet

In English: Measuring is knowing, as long as you know what you're measuring.

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Re: Gases Sensors

#8 Post by JademicIT » 16 Apr 2020, 09:55

What I try to say is this:
it is claimed that many people have purchased these Ozone generators or UV-C lamps because stocks have run out, but how many will use it correctly?
I would like to give an instrument, as precise as possible, but which in any case can give an indication to the user, an alarm, something to say attention.
I don't know in which countries you live, but it is sure that here we use it in many areas, even the domestic one, Ozone is increasingly used and I think it will spread widely in many countries, until they regulate production, because also the release into the atmosphere is harmful if high concentrations are made.
That's why measure the gas and warn that the danger threshold has already been reached and not, as now, that people turn on these generators and leave them on for much longer times than necessary.
Mine is not an incentive to use, but a "conscious" use of this tool.

You can translate this doc. from italian ministry of health in English:
http://www.salute.gov.it/imgs/C_17_pubb ... legato.pdf
Inside you can find some english link from Uk study.

Jad

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Re: Gases Sensors

#9 Post by TD-er » 16 Apr 2020, 14:10

Ah OK, as a warning that would be OK I guess.
At least as long as it is not used as the only check like "if it doesn't warn, then it must be OK"

Usage like "this feels uncomfortable, so switch on a fan" should be OK.

And indeed it is a bit concerning to see such tools are sold and used without any regulation or knowledge.

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Re: Gases Sensors

#10 Post by JademicIT » 16 Apr 2020, 14:53

Ok, so can I rely on your help to start a trial?

Jad

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Re: Gases Sensors

#11 Post by TD-er » 16 Apr 2020, 15:27

Well I can help in adding code for sensors, as I do all the time :)

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Re: Gases Sensors

#12 Post by Ton_vN » 16 Apr 2020, 21:12

Alphasense has reasonably good Ozone-sensors:
see http://www.alphasense.com/index.php/products/ozone-2/

If you don't know yet, this website may have interesting information on your application:
https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quality- ... r-cleaners

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Re: Gases Sensors

#13 Post by TD-er » 16 Apr 2020, 21:55

Spec-Sensors has also a number of sensors, with one being for Ozone.
https://www.spec-sensors.com/wp-content ... Module.pdf

Their dev board has a very nice UART interface, for which I recently made the UART-to-I2C adaptor.
Have not yet tested those sensors as they are relatively expensive.

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Re: Gases Sensors

#14 Post by chemmex » 17 Apr 2020, 00:38

Mikroelektronika makes several modules with electrochemical Spec-Sensors onboard. I believe there should be O3 sensor among them. The circuitry consists of potentiostat and i2c adc, so everything is accessible via i2c.


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Re: Gases Sensors

#16 Post by JademicIT » 25 May 2020, 10:57

G'day to all,
TD-er, do you have any news?

Jad

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Re: Gases Sensors

#17 Post by TD-er » 25 May 2020, 11:08

JademicIT wrote: 25 May 2020, 10:57 G'day to all,
TD-er, do you have any news?

Jad
Not regarding O3 sensors and their implementation.

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Re: Gases Sensors

#18 Post by Hausi » 12 Feb 2022, 17:35

CJMCU-131 - MQ-131

Hi - I saw the posts regarding this O3 sensor - and yes I have the PDFs + schema.
But: The datasheets describe the "naked" MQ-131 sensor - on the CJMCU-131 board I can see UART (Rx/Tx) pins (in addition to the pure analog pins).
I could not find anything how to talk to the board via Rx/Tx .... any hint is welcome!
Cannot believe that no-one ever used the serial interface on this sensor.

thanks
Hausi

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Re: Gases Sensors

#19 Post by Ton_vN » 19 Feb 2023, 11:29

Recently found another Ozone-sensor, which might be attractive & easy enough for a trial setup to measure low-concentration of O3: SEN0321 from DFRobot
Interface is type I2C, and in github the manufacturer provides Arduino-scripts, which could serve as starter for ESPEasy.

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Re: Gases Sensors

#20 Post by TD-er » 19 Feb 2023, 12:01

That's a relatively expensive sensor board (46 euro ex. at Mouser)

A bit too expensive to just buy to test a driver.
Do you already have one of those?

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Re: Gases Sensors

#21 Post by Ton_vN » 19 Feb 2023, 12:26

Agreed that 'just for test' the price is (too) high:
should have more significant added value, ;-) if only to easier get WAF.

;-) Price on other hand is a relative aspect, in which this sensor is 'favourable' if looking at highclass sensors like an Alphasense-OX-B431,
if considering also all unavoidable addons required for proper mechanical installation incl. airflow-guides etc..

Myself not yet purchased:
first have to 'invent & calculate' a suitable & affordable, mechanical setup in which this sensor can be fitted, and look at cost for that.
In that perspective looking for info how the sensor must be oriented for proper operation [horizontal? Or vertical also allowed?]
;-) Interface-handling for this O3-sensor might be added value for the ESP8266 now projected to just deal with heating control under my SPS030-Dustsensor.

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Re: Gases Sensors

#22 Post by Ton_vN » 10 Feb 2024, 12:19

Packages covering combined measurement of dust & gases still slow in coming.
In WXForum was hinted to Airgradient as supplier of such package for outdoor application [they also have an indoor variant].
;) Never wrong to study realized examples:
in this perspective seems useful for this forum, because
- they apply ESP32 as processor (even mentioning&showing WEMOS_D1Pro), and
- they have nicely solved the packaging aspect and the interfacing between the components.
Is offered as 'ready'-device, as DIY-assembly package for same device, as component-package/DIY-kit, and as components,
but all have to come from outside Europe.
Their included software design linked to their own server, and hinting to link to the dataplatform of openaq.org, although local interface also seems possible.
;) They understand their customers, because stating at the website that it is possible to change the firmware for your own purposes ........
First question popping up: (how) could we apply this setup with ESPEasy. or could we even DIY-build a 'better' version?
Last edited by Ton_vN on 10 Feb 2024, 18:10, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Gases Sensors

#23 Post by TD-er » 10 Feb 2024, 12:58

Firmware shouldn't be a problem.
They do have a nice enclosure, which may be hard to DIY
You can 3D print of course, but that will not be as weather proof as this one.

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Re: Gases Sensors

#24 Post by Ath » 10 Feb 2024, 14:32

The used sensors are all supported by ESPEasy, so that shouldn't be a problem.
Most DIY users also have some kind of home automation server, like Home Assistant, Domoticz, etc. running, so configuring a nice dashboard shouldn't be that hard.

Fabricating a similar, weather-proof housing will be the biggest challenge indeed. You could become a reseller for these units, and just improve them with ESPEasy before reselling 'm :lol:

An initiative for an indoor version, with display, is already being worked on, here ;)
/Ton (PayPal.me)

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Re: Gases Sensors

#25 Post by Ton_vN » 10 Feb 2024, 17:20

@ath

;) Have also been looking at their approach with view how (if possible) to reduce their components' delivery to e.g. the housing plus the main board,
while getting the other components from other sources.
But looking at the pictures have the impression that for the assembled setup and for the assembly package they have own packaging for SenseAir S8, for Sensirion SPG41 and for SHT40,
which would only leave the PMS5003 and the WEMOS for own purchase.
Then seems easier to get their complete package for DIY-assembly, to assure that everything nicely fits in the housing and seamlessly cooperates.
;) In their webshop offerings they probably have same line of thinking, because besides packages they just offer theOEM 'peripheral' components fitting those packages.

Although probably comparable in performance, the hardware layout and components of the Basic-kit differ from the toplevel 'nice & complete' packages.
As casing for the Basic-kit they offer the 3D-printing info to make your own casing,
which is 'simple & sufficient, but ugly' relative to the elegant design they sell for the toplevel packages.
The DIY-printed casing is compatible with the Basic Kit and with 'own-purchase' sensors, as described here.

For data-interface they describe the cloud-interface and an MQTT-interface.
Having become member of their forum, found that MQTT apparently in the latest release of firmware not (yet) working.
;) Very subjective opinion, but their forum in content and tone has resemblance to LetsControlIt .......

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Re: Gases Sensors

#26 Post by Ton_vN » 11 Feb 2024, 15:27

Seems important to understand before we start trying implementation of ESPEasy etc.,
but Airgradient applies ESP32 as processor in 2 variants:
the Wemos D1 Mini on the AirGradient Indoor DIY Pro
and the ESP32-C3-Mini on the AirGradient Outdoor model (aka Open Air).

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Re: Gases Sensors

#27 Post by TD-er » 11 Feb 2024, 15:54

Both variants are supported by ESPEasy.

Currently I have ESPEasy running on:
  • ESP8266/ESP8285
  • ESP32
  • ESP32-C2/C3/C6
  • ESP32-S2/S3

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Re: Gases Sensors

#28 Post by Ath » 11 Feb 2024, 16:25

Ton_vN wrote: 11 Feb 2024, 15:27 the Wemos D1 Mini on the AirGradient Indoor DIY Pro
and the ESP32-C3-Mini on the AirGradient Outdoor model (aka Open Air).
Looking closely at the photos on their website, IMHO they don't apply generic ESP boards, but use their own design (which is very common in the ESP/Arduino world ;)). So trying to squeeze your own hardware in these housings may be a bit more 'interesting' than first expected :o
/Ton (PayPal.me)

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Re: Gases Sensors

#29 Post by Ton_vN » 14 Feb 2024, 11:58

@Ath

Same observation:
in that perspective their package-deliveries seem to differ from the kit-deliveries.
Probably functionally not a big deal, but might become a headache for 'details' such as trying installation of other components.

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