Gps: Neo-6, Neo-7 is good enough?

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don
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Gps: Neo-6, Neo-7 is good enough?

#1 Post by don » 24 Dec 2021, 16:54

Just trying to figure out which hardware is good enough to receive data from sds011(dust) and gps at the same time
( Via mqtt for example )

Is Neo-6 good\convenient enough for outdoor compilations?
What about the outdoor antennas? (oh, fake one in Neo-7M https://letscontrolit.com/forum/viewtop ... f=5&t=8466 )

What about GPS GY-NEO-6M + SMA + micro USB ?
Is this could work in the upper flap of the backpack without external antenna?

Thanks!

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Re: Gps: Neo-6, Neo-7 is good enough?

#2 Post by TD-er » 24 Dec 2021, 16:58

If you want a compact and reliable GPS, my suggestion is to go for a BN220.
It does have an integrated ceramic 18mm antenna.
Internally it is using a ublox receiver.

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Re: Gps: Neo-6, Neo-7 is good enough?

#3 Post by don » 11 Jan 2022, 10:51

TD-er wrote: 24 Dec 2021, 16:58 my suggestion is to go for a BN220.
I`ve tried yesterday one of two from the parcel
Weird thing :roll:

I've already seen: unstable FIx from windowsill, incorrect height measurement and, maybe(!) even ESP hanging.

And it seems to me i cannot get any data via mqtt when bn220 is not in Fix state
(Home Assistant (openHAB) MQTT)
It could be so? I've used tcpdump to look up.
While i'm looking at (old?) GPS data in "Devices" with Fix 0, i could see only service mqtt traffic without data about "long","lat" )
When "Fix 1" is ok with data.

p.s.
Another interesting thing is the info about Fix status via mqtt
(As for me i prefer to get Fix status along with other variables to be shure about current data)

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Re: Gps: Neo-6, Neo-7 is good enough?

#4 Post by TD-er » 11 Jan 2022, 12:41

Can you show the stats as displayed on the GPS task config page?
As an example one of my units:

Code: Select all

Current Sensor Data
Fix:	0
Fix Quality:	GPS
Satellites tracked:	4
Satellites visible:	14
Best SNR:	27 dBHz
GPS sat. tracked - id(SNR):	13 (9), 19 (15), 30 (19) - SNR in dBHz
GPS sat. in view - id:	5, 8, 10, 14, 15, 17, 23, 24, 30, 32
Other sat. tracked - id(SNR):	47 (27) - SNR in dBHz
HDOP:	99.99
UTC Time:	2022-01-11 11:36:21
Distance Travelled:	0 [m]
Distance from Ref. Point:	1074140 [m]
Checksum (pass/fail/invalid):	5012102/55/0
And also what pin you use to receive the data from the GPS (and whether it is ESP8266 or ESP32).
How is the GPS powered? (voltage)
How is the unit powered? (GPS may take quite some power)

Also make sure the unit does have a clear view of the sky.
My unit, from which I took these stats, is having a very bad position with the antenna pointing roughly west (not "up") and about half a meter from HR++ window glass.
This one may take over half an hour to get an fix and sometimes even more.
The best setup is with a clear view to the sky, the antenna pointing "up" (thus the sticker on the BN220 pointing to the ground) and not having tall buildings near where you are.

don
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Re: Gps: Neo-6, Neo-7 is good enough?

#5 Post by don » 11 Jan 2022, 19:37

I`am using D9-D10 (in mode HW Serial0) and 5V from VCC from esp8266

I have the "bad" one
A cannot get Fix even with the open window :|

Code: Select all

Current Sensor Data
Fix:	0
Fix Quality:	Invalid
Satellites tracked:	7
Satellites visible:	21
Best SNR:	32 dBHz
GPS sat. tracked - id(SNR):	2 (20), 4 (24), 11 (22), 26 (32) - SNR in dBHz
GPS sat. in view - id:	5, 12, 25, 29, 31
Other sat. tracked - id(SNR):	70 (18), 71 (29), 79 (29) - SNR in dBHz
Other sat. in view - id:	72, 77, 78, 81, 87, 88
HDOP:	8.38
UTC Time:	2022-01-11 18:25:14
Distance Travelled:	0 [m]
Checksum (pass/fail/invalid):	4294/19/0

And another "good boy" which possibly could

Code: Select all

Current Sensor Data
Fix:	0
Fix Quality:	Invalid
Satellites tracked:	7
Satellites visible:	23
Best SNR:	29 dBHz
GPS sat. tracked - id(SNR):	4 (27), 6 (29), 9 (19), 26 (27), 31 (16) - SNR in dBHz
GPS sat. in view - id:	2, 5, 11, 12, 18, 20, 25, 29
Other sat. tracked - id(SNR):	70 (24), 86 (25) - SNR in dBHz
Other sat. in view - id:	71, 72, 77, 78, 79, 81, 87, 88
HDOP:	4.20
UTC Time:	2022-01-11 17:53:34
Distance Travelled:	0 [m]
Checksum (pass/fail/invalid):	5635/1/0


Current Sensor Data
Fix:	1
Fix Quality:	GPS
Satellites tracked:	7
Satellites visible:	23
Best SNR:	28 dBHz
GPS sat. tracked - id(SNR):	2 (15), 4 (27), 6 (28), 9 (18), 11 (19), 26 (28), 31 (18) - SNR in dBHz
GPS sat. in view - id:	5, 12, 18, 20, 25, 29
Other sat. in view - id:	70, 71, 72, 77, 78, 79, 81, 86, 87
HDOP:	3.60
UTC Time:	2022-01-11 17:54:04
Distance Travelled:	0 [m]
Checksum (pass/fail/invalid):	6035/1/0
It seems to me that i can SUDDENLY get Fix but i have to wait it for ages...

:?:
Another my question was about (not) sending data via mqtt without Fix:1- is bug or feature ?

Example of service traffic without Fix:1 (192.168.250.74 is ESP) to controller

Code: Select all

listening on wifi-net, link-type EN10MB (Ethernet), capture size 262144 bytes
20:27:49.823576 IP 192.168.250.74.64464 > 192.168.109.108.1883: Flags [P.], seq 6727:6729, ack 4125021723, win 5661, length 2
	0x0000:  4500 002a 0ac6 0000 ff06 c7ff c0a8 fa4a  E..*...........J
	0x0010:  c0a8 6d6c fbd0 075b 0000 1a47 f5de d61b  ..ml...[...G....
	0x0020:  5018 161d 0737 0000 c000 0000 0000       P....7........
20:27:49.824082 IP 192.168.109.108.1883 > 192.168.250.74.64464: Flags [P.], seq 1:3, ack 2, win 64075, length 2
	0x0000:  4500 002a 8e53 4000 3e06 c572 c0a8 6d6c  E..*.S@.>..r..ml
	0x0010:  c0a8 fa4a 075b fbd0 f5de d61b 0000 1a49  ...J.[.........I
	0x0020:  5018 fa4b 1306 0000 d000                 P..K......
20:27:50.026499 IP 192.168.250.74.64464 > 192.168.109.108.1883: Flags [.], ack 3, win 5659, length 0
	0x0000:  4500 0028 0ac7 0000 ff06 c800 c0a8 fa4a  E..(...........J
	0x0010:  c0a8 6d6c fbd0 075b 0000 1a49 f5de d61d  ..ml...[...I....
	0x0020:  5010 161b c73f 0000 0000 0000 0000       P....?........
While i`m getting Fix1 in tcpdump i can see real data:

Code: Select all

20:54:49.741675 IP 192.168.109.108.1883 > 192.168.250.74.62856: Flags [P.], seq 291:323, ack 355, win 64075, length 32
	0x0000:  4500 0048 f383 4000 3e06 6024 c0a8 6d6c  E..H..@.>.`$..ml
	0x0010:  c0a8 fa4a 075b f588 9efa 4331 0000 1ad0  ...J.[....C1....
	0x0020:  5018 fa4b b017 0000 301e 0013 4553 505f  P..K....0...ESP_
	0x0030:  4561 7379 2f62 6e32 3230 2f6c 6f6e 6733  Easy/bn220/long3
	0x0040:  302e 3333 3639 3435                      0.336945
Is this behavior supposed to be?
No Fix = No data at all?

Thanks!

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Re: Gps: Neo-6, Neo-7 is good enough?

#6 Post by TD-er » 11 Jan 2022, 21:02

If there is no fix, then there will be no flush to the connected controller.
See: https://github.com/letscontrolit/ESPEas ... #L355-L461
As long as "success" is false, then PLUGIN_READ wil not return "true" and thus not send data to the controller.

But leave the unit powered so the internal battery can get charged and thus keep the received trajectories of the satellites.
If you need to save power you can call the commands "gps,wake" and "gps,sleep" to manage the GPS sleep mode.
See: https://espeasy.readthedocs.io/en/lates ... -available (only in latest build, recently added)

don
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Re: Gps: Neo-6, Neo-7 is good enough?

#7 Post by don » 13 Jan 2022, 11:06

Hello!
What's the difference between SoftwareSerial and HardwareSerial for my case?
It seems that i'm getting much higher values in SoftwareSerial mode (example: Best SNR: 245 dBHz vs ~24 dBHz in HW Serial0)
And also it`s the reason of rebooting ESP
But i could have quick Fix.

Uptime: 0 days 0 hours 4 minutes
Load: 78.35% (LC=395)
CPU Eco Mode: false
Boot: External Watchdog (95)
Reset Reason: Hardware Watchdog

For example with SoftwareSerial:

Code: Select all

Current Sensor Data
Fix:	1
Fix Quality:	GPS
Satellites tracked:	16
Satellites visible:	23
Best SNR:	63 dBHz
GPS sat. tracked - id(SNR):	5 (9), 7 (18), 8 (18), 9 (7), 3 (20), 25 (27), 19 (30), 20 (8), 27 (20), 27 (63), 22 (50) - SNR in dBHz
GPS sat. in view - id:	30
Other sat. tracked - id(SNR):	66 (34), 67 (22), 75 (25), 83 (26), 84 (25) - SNR in dBHz
Other sat. in view - id:	78, 65, 74, 76, 77, 46
HDOP:	3.03
UTC Time:	2022-01-13 09:47:41
Distance Travelled:	0 [m]
Checksum (pass/fail/invalid):	525/441/0
If i change SoftwareSerial to -> HW Serial0 (and reboot ESP)

Code: Select all

Current Sensor Data
Fix:	0
Fix Quality:	Invalid
Satellites tracked:	2
Satellites visible:	22
Best SNR:	20 dBHz
GPS sat. tracked - id(SNR):	13 (6) - SNR in dBHz
GPS sat. in view - id:	5, 7, 8, 9, 14, 15, 18, 20, 23, 27, 30
Other sat. tracked - id(SNR):	66 (20) - SNR in dBHz
Other sat. in view - id:	65, 67, 74, 75, 76, 77, 83, 84, 85
HDOP:	99.99
UTC Time:	2022-01-13 09:56:59
Distance Travelled:	0 [m]
Checksum (pass/fail/invalid):	1373/1/0
...a little bit later (it could get Fix someday)

Code: Select all

Current Sensor Data
Fix:	0
Fix Quality:	Invalid
Satellites tracked:	0
Satellites visible:	21
Best SNR:	0 dBHz
GPS sat. in view - id:	5, 7, 8, 9, 13, 14, 15, 18, 20, 23, 27, 30
Other sat. in view - id:	65, 66, 67, 75, 76, 77, 83, 84, 85
HDOP:	99.99
UTC Time:	2022-01-13 10:00:12
Distance Travelled:	0 [m]
Checksum (pass/fail/invalid):	3678/1/0
...and later

Code: Select all

Current Sensor Data
Fix:	0
Fix Quality:	Invalid
Satellites tracked:	3
Satellites visible:	21
Best SNR:	33 dBHz
GPS sat. tracked - id(SNR):	8 (9), 20 (8) - SNR in dBHz
GPS sat. in view - id:	5, 7, 13, 14, 15, 18, 23, 27, 30
Other sat. tracked - id(SNR):	66 (33) - SNR in dBHz
Other sat. in view - id:	65, 67, 68, 75, 76, 77, 83, 84, 85
HDOP:	99.99
UTC Time:	2022-01-13 10:14:05
Distance Travelled:	0 [m]
Checksum (pass/fail/invalid):	13685/1/0
But Load is reasonable.

Code: Select all

Uptime:	0 days 0 hours 20 minutes
Load:	10.40% (LC=2054)

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Re: Gps: Neo-6, Neo-7 is good enough?

#8 Post by TD-er » 13 Jan 2022, 11:46

Hardware serial is preferred for "chatty" devices like a GPS.
A GPS will burst its data each second at 9600 bps.
When using software serial, each character will trigger an interrupt and interrupts will be disabled during receiving the full byte.
So that's roughly 11/9600 of a second where interrupts are disabled.
This means other input may be missed and thus it may miss replies to network connections, causing timeouts which are not handled very gracefully. (crash)

Also since it is done in software, timing is critical, which is not where the ESP8266 really shines.
It is best to use hardware serial for the GPS, as that handles all incoming bits without interrupting the rest of the CPU and just puts the data in the buffer.
This does make it (more) unlikely that there will be errors in the received data.
There is a checksum on each message, but I've seen lots of messages getting through which clearly do have an error in them. (e.g. lattitude > 90 or < -90, day of month > 31 etc.)
Most of these are already filtered out, but it is still best to use a serial port which is less likely to receive corrupted data. => Hardware Serial.

don
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Re: Gps: Neo-6, Neo-7 is good enough?

#9 Post by don » 13 Jan 2022, 15:58

TD-er wrote: 13 Jan 2022, 11:46 Hardware serial is preferred for "chatty" devices like a GPS.
A GPS will burst its data each second at 9600 bps.
Thank you for explanation.
I supposed that bn-220 is like "black box" with GPS data which ESP just gets (or not).

Is there any way for me to get the (same) result with Hardware Serial easly?
(I could get Fix:1 rather easly with Software Serial and almost impossible with Hardware Serial)

The was shoked about "alt" value in meters.
(i didn`t check the accuracy of "lat" "long" yet)
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Re: Gps: Neo-6, Neo-7 is good enough?

#10 Post by TD-er » 13 Jan 2022, 17:07

Altitude is notoriously inaccurate on GPS receivers.
For 2D navigation, you can think of pinpointing the intersection of 2 circles, where the satellite is the center of such a circle.
With 2 satellites you get 2 intersecting points, so you need a 3rd one to know which of the 2 your position is.

But imagine 2 large circles where the centers are rather close to each other from your point of view. Then it is rather inaccurate to pinpoint the right position where they intersect.
If the only satellites you see (or actually, the ones you track) are relatively close to each other, the computed position has a high inaccuracy.
In the GPS NMEA sentences, this is expressed as "HDOP" (Horizontal Dilution of Precision). It is the standard deviation in units of roughly 7 meters. (depending on the used GPS receiver, but 7m is about average for modern chips)
The same applies for the vertical resolution, expressed in VDOP.
However most GPS receivers are less sensitive to the "horizon" and thus from your point of view the tracked satellites are close to each other when looking up.
This does result in a large VDOP value and the factor in vertical direction is also more than this 7m.

For connecting the GPS to hardware serial, you can either connect it to Serial0 on pin 1 and 3 or Serial0 swapped on pin 13 and 15, but then you need to disable "Use Serial" on the Tools->Advanced page.
N.B. for a GPS you typically only need to connect the GPS TX to the ESP. This is especially important when using Serial0 swapped, as GPIO-15 needs some attention.

don
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Re: Gps: Neo-6, Neo-7 is good enough?

#11 Post by don » 13 Jan 2022, 19:36

Great! Thanks!
Working good on only one pin TX. At last! :D
HW Serial0 swap
Load: 13.40% (LC=1811)
( However, I've made separate power supply for the bn-220, not through ESP )

Code: Select all

Current Sensor Data
Fix:	1
Fix Quality:	GPS
Satellites tracked:	18
Satellites visible:	23
Best SNR:	32 dBHz
GPS sat. tracked - id(SNR):	2 (14), 4 (24), 9 (31), 11 (26), 12 (12), 16 (12), 20 (12), 25 (19), 26 (32), 29 (10), 31 (8) - SNR in dBHz
GPS sat. in view - id:	5, 18
Other sat. tracked - id(SNR):	65 (21), 66 (23), 73 (18), 79 (6), 81 (16), 82 (22) - SNR in dBHz
Other sat. in view - id:	72, 74, 80, 83
HDOP:	1.86
UTC Time:	2022-01-13 18:22:14
Distance Travelled:	0 [m]
Checksum (pass/fail/invalid):	94/1/0"
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Re: Gps: Neo-6, Neo-7 is good enough?

#12 Post by TD-er » 13 Jan 2022, 22:47

If the BN220 is powered from some other source, I assume the grounds of both power sources are connected?

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Re: Gps: Neo-6, Neo-7 is good enough?

#13 Post by don » 17 Jan 2022, 14:30

TD-er wrote: 13 Jan 2022, 22:47 If the BN220 is powered from some other source, I assume the grounds of both power sources are connected?
Yes, it`s important : ) Thanks

Questions, Questions, Questions...
Do you have tried the u-center software to change something useful in bn-220 ?
There are some videos about fine tuning of bn via u-center software like in "CONFIGURATION GPS BEITIAN BN-220 FPV" https://youtu.be/9skZoHRydx0

Today I`ve got "no fix" during the 10-minute walking with the powered bn-220
And I don`t even know why -(
I`ve checked ionister, it`s ok, so i`m going to get some data through u-center. I wonder how could i can compare the quality of my two BNs.

For now I cannot get even 10m accuracy for now even with open skies :? (attach - is the track-like picture from database + grafana )
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Re: Gps: Neo-6, Neo-7 is good enough?

#14 Post by TD-er » 17 Jan 2022, 15:54

Hmm that's really odd.
For me the BN220 units outperformed the cheap boards sold as uBlox by a long shot.
But maybe those are now also not guaranteed to be real ones?

Internally they use an uBlox chip and uBlox firmware.
You can also see the boot messages of the GPS modle in the ESPEasy log (only latest build, added recently).

Maybe the unit is configured for other satellites, like Glonass or Baidu or something?
Those may output different NMEA strings.
Can you show the stats on the config page of the GPS task?
Especially the sats being tracked, communication statistics, etc.

don
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Re: Gps: Neo-6, Neo-7 is good enough?

#15 Post by don » 18 Jan 2022, 16:32

I've checked with u-box program
Is is usual dBs for the devices?
I see the average level of 20-30dB
Is it`s OK with antenna?

Also I have a recorded file from u-box program and i can send you if it help.
A saw GPS(Gx),Glonas(R) and SBAS(one or two)

Later I''ve attached the same module to ESP and made a walk. No Fix. Just only blue led blinking :roll:
Magic

Also i`ve tried to get the syslog from ESP with debug-dev but no luck.
(Is any possibility to send more info about sat.module via syslog?)

Code: Select all

Jan 17 23:21:49 ESP-Easy EspEasy: GPS: Fix: 0 #sat: 0 #SNR: 33 HDOP: 99.99 Chksum(pass/fail): 3516/2 invalid: 0
Jan 17 23:21:49 ESP-Easy EspEasy: GPS: Fix: 0 #sat: 0 #SNR: 33 HDOP: 99.99 Chksum(pass/fail): 3517/2 invalid: 0
Jan 17 23:21:50 ESP-Easy EspEasy: GPS: Fix: 0 #sat: 0 #SNR: 33 HDOP: 99.99 Chksum(pass/fail): 3518/2 invalid: 0
Jan 17 23:21:50 ESP-Easy EspEasy: GPS: Fix: 0 #sat: 0 #SNR: 33 HDOP: 99.99 Chksum(pass/fail): 3519/2 invalid: 0
Jan 17 23:21:50 ESP-Easy EspEasy: GPS: Fix: 0 #sat: 0 #SNR: 33 HDOP: 99.99 Chksum(pass/fail): 3520/2 invalid: 0
Jan 17 23:21:50 ESP-Easy EspEasy: GPS: Fix: 0 #sat: 0 #SNR: 33 HDOP: 99.99 Chksum(pass/fail): 3521/2 invalid: 0
Jan 17 23:21:50 ESP-Easy EspEasy: GPS: Fix: 0 #sat: 0 #SNR: 33 HDOP: 99.99 Chksum(pass/fail): 3522/2 invalid: 0
Jan 17 23:21:50 ESP-Easy EspEasy: GPS: Fix: 0 #sat: 0 #SNR: 33 HDOP: 99.99 Chksum(pass/fail): 3523/2 invalid: 0
Jan 17 23:21:50 ESP-Easy EspEasy: GPS: Fix: 0 #sat: 0 #SNR: 34 HDOP: 99.99 Chksum(pass/fail): 3524/2 invalid: 0
Jan 17 23:21:50 ESP-Easy EspEasy: GPS: Fix: 0 #sat: 0 #SNR: 34 HDOP: 99.99 Chksum(pass/fail): 3525/2 invalid: 0
Jan 17 23:21:50 ESP-Easy EspEasy: GPS: Fix: 0 #sat: 0 #SNR: 34 HDOP: 99.99 Chksum(pass/fail): 3526/2 invalid: 0
Jan 17 23:21:50 ESP-Easy EspEasy: GPS: Fix: 0 #sat: 0 #SNR: 34 HDOP: 99.99 Chksum(pass/fail): 3527/2 invalid: 0
Jan 17 23:21:51 ESP-Easy EspEasy: GPS: Fix: 0 #sat: 0 #SNR: 34 HDOP: 99.99 Chksum(pass/fail): 3528/2 invalid: 0
Jan 17 23:21:51 ESP-Easy EspEasy: GPS: Fix: 0 #sat: 0 #SNR: 34 HDOP: 99.99 Chksum(pass/fail): 3529/2 invalid: 0
Jan 17 23:21:51 ESP-Easy EspEasy: GPS: Fix: 0 #sat: 0 #SNR: 34 HDOP: 99.99 Chksum(pass/fail): 3530/2 invalid: 0
BUT SNR: 33 :roll:
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TD-er
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Re: Gps: Neo-6, Neo-7 is good enough?

#16 Post by TD-er » 18 Jan 2022, 17:04

If you're not running a "test" build, you can see the NMEA sentences in debug log.

Code: Select all

    case PLUGIN_FIFTY_PER_SECOND: {
      P082_data_struct *P082_data =
        static_cast<P082_data_struct *>(getPluginTaskData(event->TaskIndex));

      if ((nullptr != P082_data) && P082_data->loop()) {
# ifdef P082_SEND_GPS_TO_LOG
        if (P082_data->_lastSentence.substring(0,10).indexOf(F("TXT")) != -1) {
          addLog(LOG_LEVEL_INFO, P082_data->_lastSentence);
        } else {
          addLog(LOG_LEVEL_DEBUG, P082_data->_lastSentence);
        }
# endif // ifdef P082_SEND_GPS_TO_LOG
        Scheduler.schedule_task_device_timer(event->TaskIndex, millis());
        delay(0); // Processing a full sentence may take a while, run some
                  // background tasks.
      }
      success = true;
      break;
    }
P082_SEND_GPS_TO_LOG Should be defined in a "custom" build or a MAX build for example.

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